Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Then Again. I'm Guada Rodriguez, media producer here at the History Center. And today we have a special episode. Liba Beecham, who is the director of operations, interviewed a Georgia studies teacher, Jim Wright, about the fun and creative methods he uses to engage his students.

So I know, as a Georgia studies teacher, that you really like to invite your students to have experiences that are going to teach them about history or help them engage in history. And so tell me about the types of places that you have been yourself that you've encouraged students to go to.

So I think the most recent one is I was in Boswick, Georgia, on Monday and talking with the previous gentleman. We had formed a lot of connections in that first that little happenstance meeting. There's cotton farms out in Boswick, and every year they do a cotton gin festival there. And in the classroom, what I do is I bring them cotton from the fields and I show them how labor intensive it is so that they can see, hey, when Whitney invents this cotton gin in 1793, it's a game changer because you couldn't sell this stuff before. Now you're planting it everywhere and you're making money, tremendous amounts of money. So that's one place, just the most recent place I've been to.

Yeah. And I really like that because it's a tactile experience. And like you said, you can go over the lesson or the curriculum in which they're learning that, yes, cotton was this the king cotton was this huge staple crop. But all of the labor and all of the details that go into how to harvest the cotton, I mean, the back breaking work that was involved, you can talk about the environment, the heat, I mean, the weather conditions. All of these factors are things that can easily get glossed over when you're really trying to hit these big, big topics. But to actually have it in the classroom, especially from a local site, I think that's a really neat way to engage them. And of course, next time they pass by a cotton field, when they're just driving by or walking by, they're going to have a memory or a connection to that and what it really means. And I love that you're using local places, too, so that it's more easily accessible to your students.

Yep. Well, and that's the thing. There's been a couple things that I've done recently. Boswick is, you know, a little further away, but it's about an a little more than an hour from here. But in Sugar Hill, there's a gold mine, and I didn't know that until recently.

Yeah, you think gold do you think Delaniga, which is obviously a wonderful place to go learn about the Georgia Gold rush. But the connections to Sugar Hill, I'm not familiar with myself.

Yeah, apparently they didn't do gold mining there until, like, the late 19th century, early 20th century, and it was nothing near what was mined in Delonaga that episode. I did three locations. I was in Sugar Hill kind of kicking it off, and then over the summer, I had went to Pine Mountain or not Pine Mountain. It's called the Pine Mountain Gold Museum.

Is that going to be near LaGrange area?

No, it's Villarica.

Oh, okay, cool.

And basically the gold belt is called the Delonaga Gold Belt. It goes from northeast to southwest. So along that line is this gold belt. And major concentration was around Delonaga, but there were gold parts everywhere. There's a mountain incoming called Sonny Mountain, and there were mines on the mountain. And there's a mine in Sugar Hill called Gold Mine Park.

Oh, wow.

And they just opened up the park in but so I start the video there once again trying to connect the kids to the local community. And I've been talking with the mayor and stuff, the Sugar Hill, and he told me this one story. He writes articles for North Gwinnett Voice. And this one article was about we have a little family cemetery on our school grounds, and one of the persons that's buried there was on the Trail of Tears escorting the Cherokee.

Wow.

It's amazing how all this stuff has kind of fallen into place to connect to the kids.

Right. It's not just text in their book or the words that they're listening to in a lesson. I mean, no matter how great of a storyteller you are, it's always wonderful to have that real physical connection by going to the place. Really offers them a sense of the past that you just can't really get anywhere else. And as a Georgia studies there's, I wonder what the there's got to be a challenge, and there's so much that they can learn. There's so much to cover because I'm sure you could spend an entire year on just the gold in Georgia. But for the challenge of a teacher like mean, I think it makes sense to inspire their curiosity, to engage them in this really fun way. But what are those challenges for you as a Georgia studies teacher? Are there topics that you really wish you could spend so much more time on, but you simply just have the challenge of time and your schedule and the curriculum that you have to hit?

I've been teaching for 18 years, and it's funny how things have changed as things do, time changes. But when I was first teaching, I remember I grew up my degree is in Civil War history, military history, and I grew up loving the Civil War. And I think I talked about that in our earlier our first episode of this. And my first few years as a teacher, I spent a month teaching the Civil War. A month?

Wow.

And then I came to the county that I teach in, and it's like, oh, yeah, you got to do that in like, three days.

Wow.

And I'm like, what in three days? Like, wait, what? Three days? I spent a month. I spent three days on antedum. There's positives and negatives in that. A lot of it is just what the kids the standards are our driving force, and it's basically this is what they need to know. We're not going to branch too far outside of that because time for one and two, a lot of times it may not directly connect, and trying to put those pieces together may be a little more complicated.

Yeah. And so, I mean, when it comes to something like such a large event in our country's history, like the Civil War, and you are following the Georgia Standards of Excellence, as you said, that kind of drives the lessons. Can you speak to are there ways that you can kind of help them connect the dots to the larger themes throughout this historic event that are connecting to what they had learned previously and what they're going to learn next? Maybe you could take the Civil War as an example. I mean, what have you found to be an effective way to teach the Civil War in such a short amount of time?

I kind of start off with a story. History is a story anyway. And I really kind of do that narrative based approach because our standards are, hey, we talk about the blockade, and then they fast forward to the Emancipation Proclamation, and then we start talking about Sherman's Atlanta campaign and the march to the sea. So there's a lot of stuff that's not there, and they don't necessarily need to know it, but in order to kind of piece the story, the you got to tell that story. So what I would do is just kind of go and introduce the Civil War and be like, okay, yeah, there was this thing called the Anaconda Plan, and we're going to squeeze them like a big snake, and we're going to cut them in two and yada, yada, yada. And they're going to move west or they're going to move east. Once they take the Mississippi River, they're going to try to take Richmond and the political capital. They're going to try to destroy the military capital, and then they're going to take Atlanta and try to take the transportation capital. And it's really kind of how I explain it, but it's real quick. It's real to the point.

Yeah. So kind of going an overview of the strategy behind the military escapades and everything, I wonder how do you approach I mean, there's still this kind of debate of the cause of the Civil War or what it was about. Do you find that students are interested in talking about the more, I guess, philosophical parts of the war or those big questions about the Civil War?

I find in recent years there has been a moving away from the Civil War as far as a knowledge level and an interest level in it. We talk about a few of the causes. We talk about slavery, states rights and nullification as the causes of the Civil War. And I try to weave that into a know what were so they were the north was upset about slavery because they didn't want it. The south wanted it. States rights connects to the idea that the southern states wanted to have the right to keep slavery. Nullification means they're going to deny the federal right, the federal law that says something that deals with slavery. So I kind of use slavery as the thread that kind of binds all these other causes together because there are a ton of the economic differences between the north and the south and how the south developed and how the north developed. And there's more cities in the north and then in the south, there's more agriculture in the south than in the somewhat.

Yeah, I understand. Exactly. And it's interesting that you've mentioned that you don't find as much of an interest from your students, is that what I'm hearing? Or they don't have quite that knowledge base to really have an in depth discussion of the Civil War. But I wonder, do you ever have time for those kinds of in class discussions to debate or to at least reflect on these historical events? Or do you feel like as a teacher it's just simply impossible sometimes to allow that kind of discussion?

It depends on the topic. It depends on what we're doing and how we're doing it. For example, we've carved out time to talk about the cotton gin and stuff like that. If you could see my classroom, I have students have made sample cotton gins in the past, that whole engineering like stem stuff.

Wow. Yeah.

So they've made cotton gins. They don't work anymore because the kids made them and stuff like that. And it's not knock on them. It's just after years of using them, they break down, but they serve as a great tool. Right now I'm looking at my table and I have one pound of cotton on a scale and it's in a bucket. So the kids can see because the story is that a person could pick, could clean a pound of cotton in 8 hours. Well, what's a pound of cotton look like? Yeah, you can formulate that in your mind, but you don't have like a concrete visualization of that. So put it in a bucket, put it on a scale. This is what a pound of cotton looks like. And they're like, wow, that's crazy. That's a lot of cotton.

Yeah, exactly. And that kind of brings to mind that it makes sense that that kind of activity, you are going to engage their curiosity, you're going to change their perspective on something because of course they're not going to know what an entire pound of cotton, which is obviously going to be a lighter weight material. So it's going to be a lot of cotton, but it seems like a good way to get them interested, to learn more, hopefully on their own as they continue their studies and even outside of school. Because as much as you can try to tell them all about the Civil War, you're up against these restrictions and constraints as a teacher. But something like that can really serve so much more value with the time that you have. I'm curious to know more about those kinds of activities. What have you found that students have really reacted well to or connected well to, and it could be outside the Civil War, any any part of Georgia history. What comes to mind?

A couple things come to mind. One thing, it's fresh on my mind. So this week we were talking about land policies because we're doing westward expansion, and we talk about the land lottery policy, and we do a simulation with the land lotteries, and it's a fake map with grids, just like you would see in a real land lottery from 1832. And the kids, we have, like, a drum, but they don't get to use the drum. So I have a bucket, and I put slips in the bucket, and it's got their lot. They pick their name or a lot out, and it tells them, do you got good farmland, how big your lot is? Some kids don't get any, and some kids got more than one plot of land. And I asked the kids, I'm like, so why am I doing this? Why is this deliberate? Well, it's unfair. I said, no, it's not unfair. I did that deliberately. Why would I do that deliberately? So I'm trying to lead them to think a little bit deeper. Why would this person get more slips? Do I like that person more?

No.

That was their first response in some of the classes. You like him more? I'm like, no, that's not the case. And then he finally get to it. It was like because he had more chances, because he was able to buy more chances for the land lottery. And I was like, well, what about the kids who got thanks for playing, or their slip was blank? And they're thinking about it, they're pondering it, and I do a lot of think pair shares. Hey, talk to your elbow partner. Discuss this with them real fast. Then they come to it, and they're like, oh, you must have ran out of land. I'm like, there you go.

It sounds like a fun activity because there's this luck and chance to it. But again, you're making it personal to them, and you're also allowing them to think and not be told everything up front. You're really allowing them to think, okay, well, why would it be the case that this person got more and I got less? That type of thing. And making that personal connection, I mean, it just sounds really fun. And I also like, the fact that you mentioned your elbow partner, the person next to you, having that discussion between them. Even if it's a quick discussion, you're still building that connection between each of the students themselves as they're participating in the lesson. I really like that, and I'm sure that there are a lot of activities you could share with us that you could recommend. But when it comes to creating these activities and brainstorming these activities, talk to me about what your process is to find activities like this or to create them yourself.

A lot of the stuff that we use I've received from other people through our school system or through friends or whatever the case may be. So a lot of that here. I have a great idea. Let's trade your idea for my idea and whatnot. So I really can't take credit for a lot of, like, the land policy thing. The simulation wasn't my idea. I don't know where we got it. We've been using it for years. But it's a great idea, and I add my own flavor, my own taste to it that may be different from other teachers around the state.

So you felt that the activities that have been recommended or provided are those from the georgia department of education itself that's creating this kind of curriculum or resources, or do you go to other online resources or teacher friends?

Some, but a lot of the stuff we use comes from our county resources.

Okay?

And that may be pulled from the state, but I've been using the county resources for a long time. I use my stuff, too, but it's more like ala carte. I may have an idea, and then the county resource has an idea, and I'll merge those together and formulate something new.

Well, it's great to hear that you've got resources in your county that you've really been able to benefit from and that students have been able to benefit from. And it sounds like you can get creative with those and sort of put your own spin or flavor on the activities itself. And something that came to mind as you were talking about the resources is that you mentioned the challenge of your first year. You were having a hard time with the time constraint of the civil war for new teachers. Do you have any advice on how to get their kids engaged or to learn more about these more interactive ways to connect with their students?

And I think that's the key. What you said is connecting with them and building that rapport. I think it stems from there, but I don't think I do anything, like, off the wall crazy. I enjoy what I do. I enjoy the subject matter, and I think the kids can see that it's genuine. It's not a show. For me, being a teacher, there is somewhat of you are an entertainer. To a certain extent, you're a person. You're selling that particular lesson. But I tell the kids that first week, I'm not from Georgia. I've lived here almost 20 years, but I'm not from here. So I look at this state from a tourist mindset. So I get excited when I go to these places because I enjoy going to these places, and I want to bring that excitement to you. And maybe you go one day to these places.

And have you found that there have been students throughout the years that have taken your recommendations to go to these historic sites? And can you tell me about what they shared with you about that experience?

So a lot of times the video series I'm doing is called Georgia on location. And in my classroom, I have a map of Georgia, and it has pins of places I've been. And I tell the know, let's do extra credit, whatever. If you're out know, it doesn't have to be grandiose. Hey, I'm here on location at Tybee Island. This is a barrier island. It protects the mainland from erosion. Butabang badaboom there. You?

Yeah, yeah.

And I've had know send me pictures of, hey, I've been here, I've been there, or whatever the case may be. I think kids, a couple of weeks back, maybe a month ago, they were in Helen, and they're like, hey, I was in Helen, and I got to see the German architecture. And that's enough right there.

Yeah, absolutely. Just the fact that they're excited to make that connection, that they recognize the historical background of where they're going. And I like what you said about that you have a tourist mindset. And to impart that on the students, to change their perspective and to see their home and the places around them as fascinating as you do like a tourist, that's got to make an impression with them when they're going out to places. And so in the video series that you've done, what are some of your favorite locations that you've gone to? And maybe if they differ, what are some of the locations that your students really like that you went to?

The students were really shocked. I did one at the Mall of Georgia.

Oh, wow.

And they were really shocked because they know that someone is on top of the Mall of Georgia. There's a statue on top of the Mall of Georgia, and they don't know who. Some kids know who it is, but a lot of kids don't know who it is. And when I tell them it's button Gwinnett, and they're like, what? So it really blows their mind. And that video I shot aerial photography of it. So that's another thing with the whole Georgia on location thing. Even if they never go to these places, they get a unique perspective. No one unless they buy their own drone, which is surely possible, but they're not going to see a close up of button gwinnett on top of the Mall of Georgia.

Right.

So there's certain things that I feel that I bring to the table near Buford Dam. So I'm a whitewater kayaker, right. And they do dam releases, obviously, on the Chattahoochee River. And I did it on location where I was filming myself when there was no water release. Then at mid and then at full release to kind of show the kids this is how this river changes in a short time. And once again, it's nothing major, but they'll never see that type of perspective.

And just the fact that it's coming from you, their teacher, I mean, it's just cool. It's just fun to see you out and about out of the classroom. Because I know, especially with younger students, it's almost like they have the perspective that the teachers only exist at school.

Yeah.

So to see you enjoying the historic sites and the areas around them and to introduce them to all these things, even, it's something as simple as, like, hey, you know that statue on the mall? We learned about that guy. It's a really neat way to engage with them, for sure.

Thank you. I think it's a good idea. This is really the first year for the last two or three years. I've started it at the beginning of the year, but then I just get inundated with family and life and school, and I never follow through with it. This is the first year I'm really trying to follow through and create new videos. Pretty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm really excited to see them and to share them with our listeners. Because, of course, even if you're not a teacher, obviously these would be great to learn about the history of Georgia through your videos, too. But I'm sure that you're also keeping in mind that these would be great for other teachers as well.

Of course.

And when it comes to the locations you have planned, I'm curious to know if you're particularly excited for one coming up or if you've got a video that's going to come out this year that you're really excited about.

So I have been prepping one for the Olympics.

Oh, cool.

We don't do the Olympics until like, March. But I'm going to shoot at three different locations. So the main location is obviously Atlanta. I'm going to go down there and shoot at Centennial Park. But they did the rowing up in Gainesville. So there's a structure up there that is the Olympic structure. So I filmed there over the summer. And then they did the whitewater stuff up in Tennessee and I went up there and I filmed up at the Akoe River in Tennessee. So I'll splice all those I'll put all those clips together and prepare that on location for when we talk about the oh, that's that's so that one I was pretty excited about. I think the one that I was most excited was is when I did the St. Simon's one.

Oh, yeah.

Because history there well, and I connected that to Oglethorpe which took me to Jasper, Georgia, because there's an Oglethorpe monument in Jasper, Georgia.

Oh, wow.

The reason why it's in Jasper, Georgia is because it was on top of Mount Oglethorpe, which was 13 miles away, which was the end of the Appalachian Trail at one I started in Jasper, talk about the Oglethorpe monument, then I end up at Mount Oglethorpe where it originally was. But then that takes me back to St. Simon's, talking about why the colony was a success. Well, it was a success because of defense, and that occurred at St. Simon's.

There you go. And of course, I'm sure you've been to Frederica then. I was, yeah, I've been there too. It was fascinating, especially since the way that we met was through the chautauqua with, you know, to be where she once stood, where her home once was, and of course the homes of many of the colonists. And that was just absolutely fascinating. Excellent museum there, too, which I'm sure you got to enjoy.

Yeah, it was awesome. I learned so much know, we went this past summer and I learned so much more about colonial Georgia. Just walking around. It was it was like I didn't know Oglethorpe actually lived there. I thought he lived in Savannah, but no, he lived because it was the border with Florida.

Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. And so have your students mentioned to you any particular museums that they've been to or historic homes or sites? Is this something that they're at least interested in doing on their own?

Trying to think maybe on a Friday I'll ask them what they're doing for the weekend or if we go into a break, hey, what are you going to do? Sometimes I have this one student. She's awesome. Her family has been to every state park.

Wow, that's impressive.

And she talks about, oh, yeah, we're going back to this one, or we're going to try this one out again, or whatnot? So it's always cool. Listen to her talk about those family experiences at different state parks.

Oh, yeah, because.

That appeals to my tourist heart, for sure.

And of course, once they're older and have a bit more independence to choose where they would like to go and as they become adults, I would easily see them being interested in like, oh, I remember this place, I want to check that out. Sort of planting the seeds for them in the future to consider these things that, of course, they're being young adults and younger students, it might take some time for them to really develop that deeper interest. But I know for myself, I too look back at the museums and historic sites that I had the opportunity to go to as a child, and those are clear memories. I may not remember the dates and names and figures and all of that, but it certainly made an impression. And that's clearly what you have done for your students as and for the next series of videos that you have. I'm really looking forward to where you'll be going and I'm particularly interested, are you going anywhere in Northeast Georgia anytime soon or have you already visited a few sites in Northeast Georgia? You mentioned Jasper.

Of course, but I've been to Falls.

Oh yeah, yeah.

But that was connecting with Hernando DeSoto. I've been to Delonica with the Gold Rush. I might try to venture up to the oh yeah, yeah, that would be so and connect that to Jimmy Carter. Maybe try to get down to Plains and add to that connection to Plains. But I don't know if you know this, but Jimmy Carter paddled the Chatuga River when he was governor of this.

Yeah, yeah. That's so neat. So to go where he actually it's it's another example of just introducing them to the more human side of someone. That is, even though he's still around, he's still a historical figure for sure. So to make those connections around the state. Well, Jim, I wanted to ask, is there anything else you'd like to share with our work? We'll certainly include the links to your YouTube channel in the episode description, but if there's anything else you'd like to share, especially with any teachers, any encouragement for them on engaging their students in similar ways that you have, or if you're available to help them in any way or to brainstorm ideas or anything like that.

Yeah, by all means, pass on my information and I'll be happy to help out whoever. I think the important thing is just enjoy the content. And I think Georgia history, 6th and 7th grade is world history. And I have nothing against it. I would teach it if I needed to, but I just think this content is so fascinating and all the stories, all the themes, all the conflict that goes on, there's just a treasure trove of stuff that keeps me going and keeps me coming back. And yeah, I travel to these places and I do these things. I just enjoy it. I enjoy bringing that to the kids.

Yeah.

And I think that would be the key to take with this is know the content, but figure out ways that you can make it alive. And that's your own personal spice on the topics.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, it inspires us too here at the History Center because that's certainly what we love to do, is make history engaging. And you've already got me thinking about the Landlordy activity for us too. Well, Jim, thank you so much for joining us today. Again, listeners, the links to his YouTube channel will be in the description. I definitely hope you will check that out. But thanks so much, Jim. This has been a great conversation.

Thank you. I really enjoyed it.

Then again is a production of the Northeast Georgia History Center in Gainesville, Georgia. Our podcast is edited by media producer Guada Rodriguez. Our digital and. On site programs are made possible by the Ada. May I? Vista Education Center. Please join us next week for another episode of Then again.