Hello, everyone, and welcome back to then again, the podcast of the northeast georgia history center. I am Marie Bartlett, the director of education here. And today I have with me Kat Nagar of Atlanta historic dance. And good gracious. Have I known you for a decade? I think I've known you for a decade.

Yes, probably. I think I met you when you were 16. Yes, you had a plaid dress on, and you were with your mom in the yard of Historical Jonesboro, Daily Oaks.

Also a very good friend of mine, Kat Nagar, we go back because I joined Kat's Dance group, atlanta Historic Dance. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your dance group, and how you started this?

Yes, I discovered historic dance at Georgia State University, and they had a company there called the Georgian Dancers. So I started studying Renaissance dance, which I absolutely fell in love with. I love the Renaissance clothing. I used to work at the Renaissance Festival. And a side note, I used to dance on my breaks. I had friends that would come by and play music for me, and I would just dance on my breaks. And I was a total energetic, crazy young dancer at the Renaissance Festival. So learning actual correct Renaissance dance was very, very exciting. I also learned 18th century dance, and the appeal for the 18th century dance kind of overtook the Renaissance because it was early ballet and it was much harder. There was a lot of footwork and terminology. You had to learn to do it correctly, whereas Renaissance is not quite as strict.

So you then, of course, fell in love with historic dance as I did when you taught it to me. And you created this company right, for, I mean, people like me who just want to come and perform. Can you tell us a little bit about the formation of how that came to be? Because I'm sure it's more of an evolving process.

Yes. So basically, the company Georgian Dancers ended up closing before I graduated. So after graduation, I wanted to continue my studies, so I went out to Stanford and took part in their Baroque Studies program during the summer program, and then I also studied in England under Philip Await. She had a consort to dance program in Wales, and so I got to study with her, join the advanced class yay. And get to perform in a historic house. So it was very, very exciting for a young historical dancer to be exposed to that and came back to the States, and I really wanted to do more. So ended up meeting my dance partner, Chris Wilson, at a workshop. And then we opened our dance company, atlanta Baroque Dance first, and that focused on Renaissance and 18th century dance, and then eventually it moved on to include Regency.

So when we're performing historical dances, it's wonderful to do all of the movements and to see how people interacted in these social dances because dance, especially in the Renaissance to Regency and even on in the 19th century, it's very social occasion. People go to these dances, country dances or balls perhaps. I mean, as a kid I always dreamed of going to historical balls. And that's something that your company now does and puts on is these balls. So how do you go from just learning the steps of the dance to creating really an immersive historical experience with these dances?

Well, I would say that when Chris and I first started, we really had a goal to create a more advanced company. And what we came to find out was that people were not quite as excited about the dedication and the time it took to learn all this complicated footwork and learn the to read the notation and study on their own. So we pretty much took it as far as we could take it. And then we just decided to keep the complicated pieces just for our own performance and then incorporate English country dance, which is a little bit more forgiving, there's a lot less footwork, and most people can do English country dance, and so that's what we have the group doing so that they can be part of the company. So as far as the immersion, I have always enjoyed going to historical balls. I used to go to Colonial Williamsburg and go up to Virginia. We've gone to North Carolina. Charleston had a fantastic George Washington ball. We went to It was filmed by the History Channel and it was a good event, but it was very unusual in that they had never prepared for historical dancers before and they waxed the floor before filming the ball.

Oh, no.

So it was really a cluster and it was quite interesting. But those events were they just planted a seed in that. I wanted to go to more events and where I am now in my life, I'm not able to travel as much. And I really wish people would put on balls in Georgia, but they really don't. So unfortunately, I had to start creating my own balls and I have a fantastic group of historians and actors and dancers and history enthusiasts that work with me to put these events on because you can't do it by yourself. You must have an army of like minded people who want to put on a good ball.

And of course, you have to have the venue and there's food because, of course, I like to consider myself part of your army. We decorate, the food gets put out and you find these wonderful venues. But also there's the issue of what to wear to a ball. So can you tell us a little bit about how historical costuming and historical dance have collided in your life?

Well, I would say that my first costume was a dress that I absolutely loved, but I didn't really understand how historical clothing was supposed to work. So I made more of a theatrical costume because the first costumes that we wore with the Georgian dancers were rental pieces, and they had the grommets in the back where you could lace them up and they could fit various sized people. And I really didn't like the costumes. I always thought that I looked like a couch because the material was made from upholstery and usually polyester. And so I wanted something that looked more period correct. And I spent way too much time deciding and looking at portraits and figuring out what design I wanted. So eventually I got it. But it took me a really long time.

So what would you say is your favorite historical dance that you have ever done, ever performed? And also, what is your favorite outfit that you ever wore while dancing?

Oh, let's see. Okay. Favorite dance? I would have to say a quadrille. During the mid Victorian time period, I learned a dance called the Windmill, and that was the first quadrille that I actually learned. And I loved how complicated it looked. I love the fact that it was based on military movements, and you could really see the sharp right turns and the sharp left turns, and if you don't hit those angles, you lose the formation of the dance. There's this aspect of enjoying the dance as a dancer, but also creating something that the audience can enjoy and see this visual movement that people have not seen for hundreds of years. So that's my favorite dance. And then as far as my favorite costume, it probably would be my mid Victorian ball gown. The second one I ever made, it's red satin. And I did a little research with that as well, because red is kind of tricky and can be a no no color. So I took the material and I dyed it in black dye so that it wouldn't be so bright and brassy. And so it was the appropriate Victorian lady color of red and then added all this gold trim. And it's still one of my favorite dresses today.

There is this I think it really stems back to this movie, Jezebel with Betty Davis. And there is this scene in the movie Jezebel, where basically, if you were a young debutante, you're supposed to wear white. And she wanted to wear this red dress to this ball, and they were like, oh, my gosh, you can't do that. But she did, of course, and then caused quite a scandal. But I think know some of the, oh, my gosh, you can't wear a red ball, like, comes from that movie and the impact that that movie had.

Oh, yes, the competition. Betty Davis competition to Gone With Wind. Yes, absolutely.

Yes. Because that's the reason why Betty Davis actually did not get the part of Scarlet is because she played Jezebel in the movie right before that. And then, of course, now we have Vivian Lee played Scarlett O'Hara, those movies came out, I think 38 and then 39. So very much back to back. Of course. Everyone knows Gone With the Wind. You say that, and even if people haven't watched it, they have a general understanding of what it is. But not many people have heard of jezebel, I like that movie.

Just go watch it.

Yeah, go watch it. I like that movie a whole, whole lot. Such in New Orleans during the yellow fever epidemic of 1853. All right, so you've talked to us a little bit about the Atlanta Baroque Dance, which was Renaissance Georgian period all the way up to Regency, but also your favorite dance is from the mid Victorian time period. So how have you incorporated more time periods into your dance company?

So as far as mid Victorian dance, I studied with the stately Vintage Dancers for many years and then eventually ended up running the company, and that was a fantastic lesson in mid Victorian dance and my favorite time period of dance. I also like later time periods. I enjoy 1920s dance and 1940s and was learning and somewhat performing these different time periods, but I was still under the Atlanta Baroque name. So I decided to change it to Atlanta Historic Dance to encompass all of the different time periods that we perform today. So currently we have classes in Regency Victorian and 18th century dance, and it looks like we're starting to do a biannual ball. So we have a Regency ball in the fall and we have an 18th century ball in the spring. So hopefully you can come and check out one of our classes and attend a ball.

So if our listeners wanted to attend a class or attend a ball, how could they find out more information about.

Yes we atlanta Historic Dance is on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok Yay TikTok. And you can also visit us on our website, www.atlantahistoricdance.com.

So whenever I go to one of these balls, which have been absolutely amazing, I find that I have so much fun, and they're way better than all modern dances that I've ever gone to. And I feel like it's almost ruined me to wanting to go to any type of modern dance, like any modern formal or prom or anything, because there is such a community aspect to these country dances, like the English country dance or Scottish country dance that we do. Can you speak to that a little bit about how these dances have formed community and how they're really interactive?

Yes. So in the Atlanta area, aside from our group, there is the Atlanta English Country Dance Society. We also have contradance in Atlanta and Scottish dance under the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society. And with all of those groups, there is a tight knit community of dancers who are dedicated to learning the dances of the era. For the most part. There are some modern choreographies in there, which I found a little bit frustrating I would go to a class, and I would fall in love with the dance, and I would ask, how old is this dance? And I was disappointed to find out, oh, it was choreographed in 1982. I'm like, Well, I can't teach it. We can't perform it, because it's not from the period. And I've actually kind of fought very hard to make sure the dances that we're performing and teaching are of the period, and we're trying to emulate the manners, the way people would have stood back then, the clothing that they would have worn. So it's an entire history lesson. You're getting opposed to somebody who's just putting on a rental costume and going out there and doing a jig.

I love how you say it. It's a whole history lesson within dance, because we're talking about manners and customs of the time. We're talking, of course, about the dances. We're talking about what people wore as a whole social history lesson through this dance class, through these dance performances. Now, you've mentioned a couple of really fun stories about going to a dance performance, like the one that had the wax floors. Do you have any other fun stories about dance performances or balls that you've gone to? Because I'm sure our listeners would love to hear.

So years ago, I received a phone call from America's Got Talent, and they were looking for performance groups to come and audition for the show. And so we were trying to figure out what we could possibly do that was impressive and somewhat different than what you would typically see, because it's television and English country dance doesn't necessarily translate that well. It's not BBC. They're not doing all the fancy camera angles and whatnot. So what we ended up doing was combining two different dances to create something that was a new choreography where Chris and I could do the fancy footwork in the front, and we could have the company members in the back doing dance steps that they already knew to show off their dance ability as well. I would say the only kind of awkward, funny thing that happened was we were in front of these producers, and they were asking us where we normally perform, and my dance partner Chris said, Senior centers. And of know, you want to give the good answers. It's like no, you forgot the the High Museum of Art. And we performed for Georgia Public Broadcasting and different historical sites and museums in Atlanta, but he just couldn't think of anything. He just know, kind of camera shy. The cameras were on, and that's what he said. Senior centers.

We have performed at a few senior centers.

Yes, we have.

Yes, also. But we performed at the Atlanta History Center for the National Four H Congress. That's like a yearly thing that happens.

Botanical gardens.

Oh, that was a really fun one at the botanical gardens also. Now, if people are just interested in watching us dance, and having us come to their event. Can you tell them about how they can do that? Even? Maybe if you don't want to come and be a part of a class or a ball, but you want to come and watch us, where are some of the places that we generally perform? Or how could they have their own performance?

Well, you can actually just give me a call. My contact information is on the website, and we would be happy to come out and either teach dance to you or do a performance or do both for whatever you need a wedding or birthday party or an event.

So do you have any final thoughts about historic dance that you would like to share with our listeners?

Well, I would say that I love historical dance because it is so much fun and really good exercise, and you get to be social and have fun and listen to fantastic music.

All right, well, we hope to see you at a ball. Maybe we'll host a ball here at the Northeast Georgia History Center. We've heard whispers of that, so let us know. Email us if you're interested in that. And also then we'll know that you listen to this podcast. So let us know if you would be interested in attending a ball here know. Say hi to us if you ever attend one of the Atlanta Historic Dance balls. We would love to see you. And also, if you are interested in seeing some of the beautiful dresses that Kat and I wear while performing with Atlanta Historic Dance, make sure you come to our 18th century fashion show. You'll see a lot of the members of Atlanta Historic Dance there, showing off the beautiful things that they've created. And that is going to be on August 19. Make sure you mark your calendars for August 19. We have two shows this year because they were so popular. We have one at 01:00 p.m., and then we have another show at 04:00 p.m.. Now, we hope that you are going to be there. We hope to have a full house, so make sure you get your tickets ASAP because we're expecting to sell out.

Then again is a production of the Northeast Georgia History Center in Gainesville, Georgia. Our podcast is edited by media producer Juada Rodriguez. Our digital and on site programs are made possible by the Ada May I? Vista Education Center. Please join us next week for another episode of Then Again.