Hello everyone, and welcome back to then again the podcast of the Northeast Georgia History Center. I am Marie Bartlett, the director of the Ada May Ivester Education center here. And today I have with me Annalise met and and she is a public historian, a historical interpreter, a historical costumer, and you might know her on instagram as the sophisticate. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so much looking forward to our conversation.

Yay. So today we are going to talk all about living history, working in the museum field, and how does one get started in doing that? So can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started working in museums?

I've always been a museum goer. Our family always had visies and passes to local cultural institutions around us, making children's museums and science museums and of course, history museums. In fact, most of my memories of family vacations include visiting museums like the Smithsonians and presidential homes and making Mount Vernon and Monticello. But as far as how I ended up working at a museum, I started at Genesee Country Village Museum as a costuming intern this summer after high school. I worked in their costume shop and shadowed craftspeople who taught me about spinning and weaving, dyeing and flex processing. And I really credit that internship for putting me on the path for museums as a career. In fact, it was that year that I started blogging as the young sophisticate, now the sophisticate to document all that I was learning and sewing, and from there I became a historical interpreter. Went to Kent State University for costumes and textiles. Now I'm back full circle at the museum where I started almost a decade ago.

That is amazing. Also, Kent State has an amazing fashion museum that I want to go visit one day, but I've been definitely taking advantage of all of their YouTube videos and online inventory, so I can only imagine getting to go and study there full time.

It was fantastic because they have rotating exhibits and every semester their fashion timeline actually rotates a lot of the pieces so you can see the timeline of history. And they do have a digitized collection as well.

I'm going to have to dive even more into their digitized collection because that is like one of my dream museums to go to. So you told us a little bit how you started into a museum. Can you start talking us through about some of your different positions in the museum and what your current role at your current museum is? Sure.

So I, as I said, started as a costuming intern. Then I applied to become a historical interpreter, and I did that for actually, the whole of the time. I still interpret any chance I get. Then I was the office assistant for the interpretation department, then manager of community lifeways, which was an interpretation kind of program management position. And currently I have the honor of being GCDM's first associate director of diversity, equity and inclusion.

That's so cool, because you can really see how you have worked in so many different facets of the museum and kind of grown through different positions within the museum. Can you tell us what some of your primary responsibilities were for each of those roles? Sure.

So for costuming, intern, as I mentioned, I mostly worked in the costume shop, and I did a lot of shadowing with craftspeople. And then as a stark interpreter, I was one of the folks out in a costume doing third person interpretation, telling people about the history and surroundings, of course, clothing of the 19th century. Then as office assistant, it was a lot of kind of inventories, training, just anything that interpretation leads at the time and managers and senior director needed. That was a lot of fun. So there's a lot of flexibility in that position. And then as a manager of interpretive programs, it was a lot of overseeing and managing of programs and about 90 historical interpreters and volunteers and all the activities that happen within select buildings, from historic dining programs to textile arts programs. And just the day to day activities and special events, kind of themed weekends and themed programs. And it was a lot of fun to learn alongside all these very talented historic interpreters and also to help grow them. Grow the program.

That sounds so cool. I think there was one time I was visiting Genesee County Village and museum, and it was the first time I met you in person. And I wasn't able to go to the program because we were visiting on a weekday. But you're like, oh, my gosh. Come back this weekend if you can, because we have a chocolate program. Oh, yes.

So there's a lot of themed programs, anything from chocolate to. Sometimes we've done color theme weeks, like a yellow week, a red week, which is always great for historic textile folks, because they can always dye all these fun colors and sometimes get to dye colors that they don't usually just to fit these fun themes.

So if we are doing like a blue week, besides dyeing fabric and talking about the color and where your color comes from, what else do you do during a blue day or week?

Blue theme week. I'm not sure that I've been around for a blue theme week yet, but if they were to have one I'm sure they could talk about everything from some of the historic wallpapers and historic paints. Use a lot of blue. Hosmers Inn has a really bright blue called saxon blue that they could talk about the invention of that. Actually, the inventor was going for a red, interestingly enough, ended up with this beautiful blue color. We could talk about prussian blue, which is another 19th century pigment. Of course. They can dye with indigo, the magic dye. So there's a lot of opportunities in color, of course, but I'm sure they can look at different social ties as well. Blue stockings is what comes to mind.

That's awesome. Do you have, do you think, a favorite program that you got to work on or create while in that role?

Sure. I certainly loved historic dining. I did a lot of programs there. Specifically, I wanted to have a coffee house. And the coffee house program actually was run out of Hosmer's Inn. So Hosmer's Inn did a lot of things like afternoon teas and historic dinners. And this coffee house program was kind of a daily program that they could do on special event weekends where people could come into the inn and order all kinds of specialty historic drinks, things like american heritage, chocolate, coffees, teas, even shrubs, which is certainly a 19th century kind of drinking vinegar that was actually really popular in lemonade and all kinds of things. Well, these themed 19th century drinks also could have some sort of, like, programmatic tie. So, like, for making music weekend, we had live music, and they actually laid a stage, and we had cloggers do two performances, and it was really popular inside and outside, depending on the weather.

That sounds so cool. I have gone to visit the Genesee County Village Museum twice now, and I keep wanting to go back because all of your programs are just so amazing, and it's just such a neat place, just in general to go and see. So we've touched on this a little bit, but can you just kind of explain to us a little bit more about what type of museum Genesee county village and museum is? Because there's art museums, natural history museums, history museums. But history museums have a lot of different routes that they can go while interpreting history or preserving artifacts. Can you tell us a little bit more about what makes your museum unique?

So Genesee country, village, and museum is actually what is called an open air living history museum. And I like to think it's the closest we're going to get to actual time travel. But basically, living history museums offer these fully immersive experiences with history. So the idea is to engage all of the senses, from smelling and even tasting what's cooking in a historic kitchen to hearing things like the clang of metal and metal in a blacksmith forge, and seeing the sights and activities in this carefully recreated historical village. So we are actually the third largest living history museum in the country. We have 68 structures in a working village that portray the change in time and technology between 1790 to about 1920. But where we specialize is daily life. So it's the farms, the houses, businesses and working trades. And these are completely furnished and then staffed with costume interpreters who interact with the public that tell them about the family stories, the collection items and life in that time period. I will say we also have a large historic costume collection, which I know you've seen. It's housed in our John L. Whaley Art Gallery, as well as a nature center and miles and miles of trails on 600 acres.

I didn't realize that it was that big. Like 600 acres big because when you pull up, you see the whole open air museum and of course it feels so large and grand. And then there's also the galleries. I didn't realize there were that many nature trails.

Yes, there are certainly a lot of nature trails. We even have ponds and we go all the way up to Oakka Creek. So there is a lot of land there and a lot know focus on the natural environment is a big component of our mission.

Wow. That's amazing. You're like a natural history museum, a nature preserve, a gallery, a living history museum. All in one.

Yes, one stop shop.

So could you share some of your more memorable or unique experiences that you've had while working in a museum or just in public history in general? Because I know you also do different, not just at Genesee County Village Museum, but you also do programs at other historic sites and reenactments, as you know.

Asking about memorable experiences, kind of like asking people what their favorite book is. There are so many experiences that it's difficult to know where to start.

We're willing to hear several.

Well, I think overall, the idea for me is that the most rewarding part about working for museums is being able to inspire the next generation of, hopefully, museum workers. So I can share an example from this past year. I used to teach a fashion fun summer camp, maybe about like ten years back now. And it was this week long camp for kiddos, maybe ages eight to ten. But this year when I was at the Maple Sugar festival, I was making candles or tallow dips and one of the young guests remembered that I was her teacher. For fashion camp, we got to talking, and she was telling me about how she wanted to work at a museum, and I thought it was really sweet that she remembered me. And I said something along the lines of, our museum volunteers start at age 16. Are you 16 yet? Come to find out, she's like 19 years old, so I felt old. But now when I see her around the site, because she's actually employed at Genesee Country Village museum now, she likes to tell people that story. And for me, it's a really special moment, kind of a full circle moment. And I think that's the biggest takeaway I have from working in a museum. And what I want frontline staff to know is that we can have such an impact on the visitors that we talk with, and you never know who you're talking to, especially kiddos. And if they'll grow up to be that next generation of museum workers.

Yeah, that's absolutely the dream. Whenever we have field trips or home school days or any family days, that's the whole thing is try to reach people, to inspire them, especially when we do have our young audiences and to have one that I'm sure there's always the one that will actually come back and maybe tell you. And for every one, there's probably ten that also feel the same way, that just, you just don't know because they've gone off and maybe don't live in the area anymore. But sure, that's so amazing.

And there are so many other ways that these kiddos can grow up to be museum donors and patrons and bring their families. They don't necessarily have to just work for a museum to know that you've had some kind of impact on them. Yeah.

Make the next generation of museum lovers and museum supporters, because definitely most museums are not for profit. They are nonprofit, 501 c, three organizations who rely on donors.

Yeah. Visitors are certainly the bread and butter of a lot of museums. Yes.

So what are some of the current challenges that your museum faces or that you feel that museums in general face today that you would like people to be more aware of as they are attending museums or maybe as they go and support museums trying to help solve these problems?

Yeah, I wish I could say that being a cool living history place absolves us from all the troubles that museums in general are facing. But I can certainly think of and speak to several challenges, and I'm going to take the perspective of museums in general here. I would say first that we're struggling with reaching new audiences, and again, that's something I think all museums and nonprofits can relate to, especially reaching audiences whom history has not always been kind to or even systematically erased. So I think as museums as a whole, we have to think about continually growing audiences to both remain relevant, but also financially afloat. I would say another challenge we face is expanding narratives. People really expect to see themselves and their ancestors as part of the stories that we're telling. And this can be challenging when few histories beyond those of rich white men have been prioritized and then collected. So researching and piecing together these hidden histories does take time and resources, money certainly being one of them. And in many cases, you not only have to audit existing programs, but you have to create entirely new programs and entirely new exhibits. Okay, finally, I will say that diversifying staff is a current challenge. There is a lot of privilege that comes with working for a museum. I'm the first one to acknowledge the privilege that I have in working for a museum because there's a lot of education required. Many jobs require expensive bachelor's and master's degrees that not everybody's going to have access to. Most frontline museum jobs are minimum wage or even just volunteer positions, and that's not something that every graduate, especially those with huge student loans, can take on. And when you do find full time positions, many require you to wear multiple hats. And working those long hours may not be realistic or possible for people who are trying to have work life balance or support families, take care of parents, et cetera.

Absolutely. I think a lot of people who work for museums or just have any kind of general knowledge of what goes on behind the curtain in museums definitely understand and feel all of those challenges, for sure. And that goes very well into your current position as well. Some of those challenges that you face, is there any insight that you can give that from your current position as really the first DI officer at your museum, that would you feel comfortable sharing any insights that you have into some of those, or how would you try to solve those problems?

Yeah, okay.

If you don't want to answer that.

Certainly my position has to address all of those issues and more. So really, this position of associate director of diversity, equity and inclusion kind of encompasses all those challenges that we talked about and really helps the institution address any matter related to diversity, equity, accessibility and inclusion. The acronym we usually hear is Deai or some kind of arrangement of those letters. And in that we look at these challenges with every single department, with senior leadership and our CEO. So I really work on advising and supporting and then implementing strategies that address those issues. And of course, it's not just a one person job. So this is done with the support of a cross departmental DeaI working group, which I do facilitate. And we meet regularly to identify needs, like I just mentioned, and connecting those needs with resources. So sometimes the work is internally focused, like updating policy, certainly arranging staff trainings and fun cultural activities too. But there are those outward facing duties, like creating public statements, communicating how we're doing on those DAi goals that we collectively set and are hoping to accomplish and inform the public of how our institution is changing. I'm really big into building community partnerships and outreach, and that's where we really kind of cultivate and then grow those new audiences. So in community partnership building, you're not only looking at new programming partners, you're also looking at attracting new audiences, specifically those who may have not felt previously welcomed at a site like mine. And you identify barriers and then solutions.

That's awesome. You're really on the ground trying to overcome those challenges and reach new audiences and keep museums not just talking about the past, but also being open to the future. Because I think a lot of times at history museums we're focused on the past so much, but the museum is here for the public and the public is in the present, and we have to think about the future as well, especially when we're talking to those kiddos. And we want to make sure that everyone does feel welcome at museums and gets to hear honest history, true history and inclusive history that doesn't sugarcoat some of the really terrible things that have happened in the past. So to be honest and open to conversations is a huge deal. That is wonderful to hear how just museums in general, not just yours, but just all of them in general, are trying to implement things like you were just talking about?

It's a delicate balance when you go to specifically living history sites with the expectation that you're having an immersive, fun day learning about history and experiencing the past, there is a lot of people who come for the nostalgia of it all. They want to think about the good old times. And it can be sometimes challenging for guests when you are confronted with the harder parts of history, especially when you're trying to have a fun kind of escape into the past. But I think it's really important, as you said, to consider the complete history and the full story by making sure that everybody and everybody's history is represented.

Absolutely. So we've talked a little bit about what you're currently doing. So are there any really exciting upcoming projects or exhibits or programs that you're working on that you can tell us.

About sure so December for us and for many museums, I'm sure, means buckling down for a month of holiday programming. So I've been working really closely with our special events and education department specifically to revamp our winter programming through a multicultural lens. So our cherished Yule tide in the country theatrical tours, which explore various holiday traditions brought to the region by 19th century settlers, will have three new scenes, including a french Noel scene, as well as this two part scene that will highlight the life of a mid 19th century black Rachel Syrian Mr. Jacob Morris, who was this renowned barber, party planner and underground railroad conductor, which really speaks to the new research that our site is doing. I think it's also a great opportunity to discuss what it's like to have to work during the holidays making others merry while your own family has to wait to celebrate, which I think a lot of people will relate to as far as the home for the holidays, school, field trips, it's also getting that same multicultural revamp and we're actually introducing chinese new year for the first time. I am the one who will be researching and then delivering this program and I'm super excited to bring another wintertime holiday to the lineup which happens to connect to my heritage and I know will also for some of the students that we'll see coming through the village as far as the rest of 2024, we're in planning phase now, so you can keep an eye out on Genesee country, villages and museum's website for a full 2024 event calendar. All the returning favorites, of course, but new programs as well, like the solar spectacle which is going to be a four day festival and viewing party as we are actually in the path of totality for the big solar eclipse in April. As for exhibitions, I heard a rumor that you may be speaking with my colleague at the John Alwaley Gallery, and I know that he has a lot of exciting news to share.

That's so exciting. So everyone will just have to listen to the next episode of then again to hear more about what's happening there, and also perhaps a little bit about some historical fashion as well. Foreshadowing now, what advice would you have for someone who is interested in pursuing a career in museums? You've worked in so many various aspects, I feel like you have a lot to offer on insight about the different facets of museum work. What would you tell somebody who comes to you and says, hey, I absolutely love museums, I love history. What do I do now? How do I get to be you? How do I get to be any of the various different positions that you've had.

First, I would say there's no one size fits all, one path fits all into museums. So I would just start by telling people to ask questions. Reach out to people who work in museums and museum adjacent fields and ask any and all of your questions because you never know where a conversation will lead. I'd say to stay informed, read books, blogs, listen to podcasts. Like then again, be prepared to be a lifelong learner and researcher and approach everything with curiosity and openness to new experiences. I'd say visit different types of museums, see what you like and maybe what you don't like, and imagine yourself in different museums or different positions and what you think you'd like and what you maybe think you wouldn't like. And then nothing beats hands on experience. So start by volunteering or even getting a summer or part time job docenting at a museum. Ask to shadow people. Maybe do an internship if possible. Again, you just never know where these opportunities will lead.

It's one of those things where it does very much depend on what you know because you have to have historical facts and research is very good, but also is one of those situations of where it's also who you know. A lot of times in the museum field, and having had an internship or volunteered or having had a part time job there really does the people get to know you so you will be notified usually if there is any type of work that becomes available where people could help. Of course, those job postings are always open to the public as well. But I do know a lot of times, at least here at the history center, a lot of our people who we have hired on have started as interns. Of course, that's not true for everybody. Some people we just meet and we're like, oh, my gosh, you're amazing. Come join our team. But a lot of times, an internship is a wonderful way to get your foot in the door and also learn a whole lot at the same time.

Absolutely. There's a lot of small world moments that happen at museums, and I like to think that the museum field in general is a small field. But that's not to say that there aren't opportunities and that you never know what's out there until you start looking around.

We've talked a lot about your work in public history as a profession, but you also do public history as a hobby, I assume at that point. Because since it's your job and your hobby, it's your passion in life.

Absolutely.

So can you tell us a little bit about more what you do outside of just your day job for public history, because I think it's amazing. You have this incredible instagram and blog that I love to follow and everyone should go follow on Instagram at sophisticate and I'll link all of this down in the bio as well. But I would love to hear about how you do public history on the Internet because that is a wonderful way to make history even more accessible to people and just kind of spring up on their films as they scroll through their feed. So can you tell us a little bit about why you started that, how that is going, and what people could expect to see when they follow?

Sure. So as the sophisticate or sometimes I'm still young sophisticate in places where I haven't quite updated the handles, but I mostly share historical sewing, the sewing process, as well as the historical inspiration behind the pieces as the hopes of being a resource for people hoping to make historical reproduction clothing. I also talk about and share chinese american history, which is my heritage, and I'm really getting into sharing that part of my heritage and history with others. It's one of those sometimes hidden histories that the field needs more of. I certainly talk about living history practice and then textile arts projects, so I share those all on social media and on a blog. Blog kind of has a bit more opportunities for longer researched articles and a lot more pictures with accompanying text on Instagram and a Facebook page. You can only put so many pictures and so much text, so those are a bit more updates and then longer research pieces would go on things like a blog. And again, the hope is to be a resource for those specific areas. I do also enjoy creating educational programs and doing fashion history lectures, and that is kind of in accompanying to this online Persona. It's just a lot of fun.

Do you have a particular era of fashion history that you either enjoy the most or have the most dresses from?

I like to say the entire 19th century. But as far as having the most dresses from, I certainly have large wardrobes for the eras that Genesee country, village and museum focuses on. So that would be the early 18 hundreds or the regency era as well as mid century. So 1850s and 1860s. I did some civil war reenacting, so I do have a lot of 1860s dresses as well. But as far as favorite fashion times, I just want to say the entire 19th century. But if I had to narrow it down, I would say that I'm really into kind of the 1830s because it's got these really wild and wacky fashions, as well as the second or late bustle period right now, which just caught my eye, specifically 1886, when the bustle is at its biggest or widest.

That is awesome. The 19th century, I would probably have to say that's my favorite, too. There's just so many wonderful styles, and they all fairly nicely fit into kind of a decade. And the history that's surrounding it, the social context, is all just so fascinating. It's a good decade. It hasn't quite gotten to the second industrial revolution to where everything's changing insanely fast, but it's changing enough to where it's like, oh, well, that's this decade, and that is this. And this is because of that. And it is so fun.

What I like to say when people ask me why historical fashion is. It is a great lens for exploring all types of history, your social history, your economic history, and of course, that's tied to political history. But then you look at inventions and how that has an impact on fashion and communications, and it is just a fantastic lens to do a complete history through. And I also like to tell people that it's great to look at pretty things, but that the hope behind all this sharing is that you're not only looking at just pretty things, but understanding the whys behind what people were wearing.

Absolutely. Because clothing and fashion is such an expression of a person. So you can talk about the person, their personal choices, their individuality, who they are, and it's all kind of represented within a piece of clothing that even though the person isn't here with us anymore, but the piece of clothing that represents them still is. I was just thinking I'll have to have you back on the podcast. We'll just talk all about 19th century clothing. It'll just be like a long podcast of 19th century clothing, if you're game for that.

I am totally game. I just love historical fashion, and it is so hard to pick a favorite decade. And I swear, every time I'm asked, it changes based on the projects I'm sewing. Which, if you couldn't tell, I'm currently working on an 1880s ensemble, which, interestingly enough, I am going to juxtapose eastern and western fashion. So I'm creating a western style 1880s bustle, and I'm going to use the same color palette and fabrics, in some cases to do a chinese ensemble to just juxtapose eastern and western fashion of the same decade. So I think that's one of those little cool passion projects and research rabbit.

Holes that is going to be amazing. And I can't wait to see all of the photos of that.

I am super excited and just the learning process because I have never previously till now, gotten into hanfu or chinese historical clothing. So this is a whole new area for me and I hope to do it justice.

That is so exciting and I cannot wait to see all of that on your blog and on Instagram and Facebook and all the social medias because that'll be absolutely amazing. I'm already thinking about five different podcasts that we could also do with so.

Many of different topics.

So to kind of finish out our podcast. Lastly, what do you think the future holds for museums for public history? And how do you see the role of museums evolving in the coming years? And what are your hopes for museums and public history in general? For the future?

That is quite the question or series of questions, but I really would say that museums are going to have to embrace Deai as the future. I think people are starting to realize that it's not just a trend, but a necessity to stay relevant and then best serve our public. And I would like to use the letters to explain what I mean here. D stands for diversity, and that's diversity in the staff, programs, and visitors. Like I said, people want more from museums. They want to see themselves in the stories and understand how the museum collections relate to them. So I think it's going to be a lot less about names and dates and more about hands on and immersive experiences going forward. The e stands for equity, and that's a complete reimagination of museums. Museums not just as caretakers of collections, but worthy of public trust. Museums are going to be centers of community, of learning and play, but also of justice. So we have to be willing to put money and resources into decreasing barriers to access. And a of course stands for access or accessibility for us. And that's not just physical accessibility. Living history museums and historical homes are not always ada compliant, but also the financial access piece. We're going to have to reevaluate pathways into the field, making careers more accessible and affordable, especially if we want to attract certain demographics. Then finally, that I, or inclusion, is being museum spaces that are welcoming in value and cherish the history and experiences of all.

I think that is a wonderful note to end on as we think about the future and also what we've talked so much about during this podcast. And hopefully our listeners will really hopefully enjoy that and understand that and will also be advocates in their own way as they go and go to different museums and support those initiatives. Do you have any final thoughts for us as we close out this podcast?

I'm just very excited to see the next five years, the next ten years, the next 50 years of museums and see where we're going to be. We're going to look back on where we are now and think, oh my, what were they doing back then? And in those 510 20 years, we will be such more inclusive spaces.

Well, thank you so much for being with us today. I enjoyed our conversation so much and we hope everyone enjoys listening to. Then again, until our next podcast, take care everybody and go check all the links in the bio. Then again, is a production of the Northeast Georgia History center in Gainesville, Georgia. Our podcast is edited by media producer Guada Rodriguez. Our digital and on site programs are made possible by the Ada May ivester Education center. Please join us next week for another episode of then again, close.